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TOPIC: 28mm games in the mags
PM Le Comte de Froufrou
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28mm games in the mags
Le Comte de Froufrou
25th Sep 2017 01:44:30

Pete: I agree with most of what you write, but the point for me, as I noted in my earlier post, is the coverage of C20th games, especially WW2 and WW3. 6mm has always been a particular part of this period gaming, and the lack of coverage of it, or of 15mm gaming (bearing in mind the popularity of Flames of War and Team Yankee) suggests that it's more than just a presentation issue. The GW influence you mention is, I think, a major part of the lack of non-28mm representation. It's not just the scales, it's the type of articles too. If it was simply the aesthetic appeal of the figures, then I would expect to see more articles about rules or historical campaigns. Instead there seems to be (bearing in mind my detachment and very limited sample) a focus on modelling and painting. I don't believe there aren't good 6mm pics out there, and if there aren't, get a professional photographer to take pics at a show. As you rightly say, it affects other scales too. I know there are a lot of very well painted 15mm Ancient and Renaissance armies out there - why don't they get featured? As for naval or aeriel games.....

If one accepts that the magazine editors are simply catering to the demands of their clientel (and advertisers), then it's difficult to avoid the conclusion that the people who buy the magazines are mainly 28mm gamers, and who probably started gaming through a GW product. And that in turn suggests there might be a market for a hobby magazine that promotes the other scales, both larger and smaller than 28mm.


PM Jmedmans
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28mm games in the mags
Jmedmans
26th Sep 2017 10:43:10

Hi everybody

Just a quick thought . Following on from my first post, having read the comments from other contributors  whose clubs seem to play 28mm skirmish games   I have come to the conclusion rightly/wrongly that these 28mm gamers may want to  fight "big" battles  but cannot because of cost and space. They also seemed to be in denial that 6mm is the scale to play big battles. For example I have complete the British 4,7,Light Divisions for July 1813 and the French 3,4,5 divisions 1 base=1 battalion Now can it be that 28mm gamers cannot/willnot admit that they cannot do the same thing unless they pay out huge amounts of cash. Also I suspect as I said earlier in my last post the idea of painting 6mm is probably such a stressful thought that it is terrifying. 

Just a few more ramblings.
 

Jonathan  


PM Glenn Pearce
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28mm games in the mags
Glenn Pearce
26th Sep 2017 02:10:47

When I started with miniatures over 50 years ago there was only one main scale 25mm. Nothing has changed over the years except it's now called 28mm and it's been given a huge shot in the arm with plastic figures. The second place scale 15mm/18mm has managed to carve out a big piece of the pie but it is under full attack from 10mm/12mm. Our great 6mm seems to presently hold a distant third place. All the other scales don't register very high in popularity as far as I can tell.

Shortly after switching to 6mm in the 70s I stopped buying all magazines as they rarely contained any 6mm content. Nothing has really changed over the years, 28mm dominates our hobby. So the magazines cater to their bread and butter. What else can they do?

We all know how impractical it is to game with scales larger then 6mm, but the masses are impressed and obessed with their larger figures no matter how impractical they are. They will never change in part because of their huge investment and brain washing.

The only light I do see is 6mm continues to grow for all the practical reasons. While 28mm is kind of frozen in time with fewer new recruits. It's very hard to notice as it's so big. I don't think 28mm sees a new customer every day like Peter does. I don't know how long it will take before the new (6mm) overwhelms the old (28mm), but I'm confident that it will happen some day. As that happens so will the content of the magazines change.


PM Suntzu777
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28mm games in the mags
Suntzu777
27th Sep 2017 02:30:00

Well I read this thread and perhaps something needs to be done to improve the situation so here is my idea , when miniature wargames first appeared the variety of articles was very diverse and had something for everyone so how about this community create their own web magazine , readers could submit articles on anything they like provided it was relevant to the subject at hand and if peter is willing perhaps prizes could be offered as enticement to submit interesting articles.

 I do think that this so called web mag would need to look like a dead tree type and come out at regular intervals 

Rob


PM daniel@briggencom.com
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28mm games in the mags
daniel@briggencom.com
27th Sep 2017 04:07:34

Peter has raised a strong discussion topic. I love 6mm, so why don't others? I've a few answers to contribute:
Never under-estimate the power of sex!  For example, take a look at the Salute painting competition pictures. Yes, there are a few "historicals" there. However, in the main, if they are not scantily clad females, of which there are many, then certainly the majority include bare flesh. The hunky hero can be just as thrilling as the godess. Sadly, such features, even if you wanted them in 6mm, just don't come over with the clarity of 28mm. Publishers need an audience and know what sells.
As a new entrant into the commercial world of wargaming, I'm learning slowly about marketing. We, in the 6mm domain, are pretty bad at it. Take a look at the JoyOf6 website, for example. I'm pretty sure there will be another event next year, but is there a webiste for it?  Maybe just a date?  Even if we are trying to build the conversation with our prospective audience, we are not making it easy for them. [I should take a look at my own websites tomorrow, with the same cricism in mind!]
Content is king. I put on many participation games, traveling to clubs and shows, including some great historical battles fought at JoyOf6 this year. However, writing them up is low on my to-do list, overtaken by my desire to get the next show on the road. (Incidentally, that will be Montecassino 1944 at the Texas Broadsides show, local to where I live in the USA - www.txbroadside.com).
Now, follow the money! If the evil giant of Warhammer had on average one new customer each day, they wouldn't be the giant we know. Peter sounds pleased that Baccus6mm has that running rate. I conclude 6mm is a niche in the market. Ok, let's not forget it.
Many comments in this thead have expressed how little wargamers spend on their hobby, often figuring at less than a hundred (Dollars, Pounds, or Euros) for a project. That wouldn't buy you two tickets to a decent concert or sporting event these days. So what do you think you are buying? A hobby or a pass-time?
The specialist magazines take money for advertising and naturally publish articles to support the adverts. Logically, even if they have "free" content, they will favour content that has advertising money behind it. Don't complain - they have to earn their keep too.
For me, 6mm is the ideal scale for fighting historical battles. My game rules (Brigadier General Commands), including explanations about how to make historical wargames from battle narratives and maps, took far more effort to compile and publish than I had imagined. I have projects to publish the scenarios that I've played at clubs and shows, but wonder if the market would reward my effort. 
I'm not giving up. In deed, Peter's thread encourages me to do a little bit more to push the 6mm agenda.
Daniel T Shaw
www.GamesAtWar.com


Email dourpuritan PM dourpuritan
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28mm games in the mags
dourpuritan
27th Sep 2017 06:35:25

In terms of rules the Polemos family have been designed specifically for 6mm, but others come to mind, such as Altar of Freedom (ACW - and their website features only Baccus 6mm), Bruce Weigle's 1870 family of rules (again featuring many photos of 6mm figures fighting across beautifully terrained tables), Bloody Big Battles which work best with 6mm and 10mm figures, the Painting Shed Napoleonic rules, Great War Spearhead, which again look best in 6mm. Doubtless there are others out there, specifically for the post 1920s period (not my kettle of ducks), but many other more generic rules make adjustments for using 6mm figures, such as DBA, Impetus and Warmaster (which look spectacular in 6mm).


PM Guy WSS
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28mm games in the mags
Guy WSS
27th Sep 2017 07:55:05

Hi all,

I'm Guy Bowers, the editor of Wargames, Soldiers and Strategy. And I care, which is why I'm posting here.

As one of those editors referred to, I thought I'd chip in. Thanks Pete for a very thought-provoking piece and you are right of course. 

As I said on Facebook, my main issue is finding the content for smaller scales - both photographs and modelling articles. In fact, I have one 6mm and one 10mm modelling article commissioned, both of which I have been waiting an inordinate amount of time for. If and when I get them, they'll go into WS&S. Readers of WS&S will know we've had several recent 2mm articles by Mark Backhouse and I plan to have more smaller scale stuff.

There is a reason why 28mm ends up in the magazines, it is easy to come by. If I ask the Perrys or pop into Warlord, I can access vast collections. F
rankly, I have to compete with WI. I have struggled from day one with getting any photographs of anything smaller.

I'm going to send Pete an email but I'm also going to lay down a challenge to you all. If you want 6mm in WS&S, I'll need decent high-resolution pictures of decent collections. I can't use out of focus pictures.
 
My email is editor@wssmagazine.com


Please drop me a line if you can help. The ball field can change if you make it change.

Guy


PM Wayne at WI
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28mm games in the mags
Wayne at WI
27th Sep 2017 09:04:59

Hello,

As the Sub-Editor at Wargames Illustrated, there's much food for thought here. I've emailed Peter before regarding our lack of 6mm coverage. As a gamer who has collections of 15, 20, 28 and 32mm figures, and having helped to create rules that focus on 20mm as the ideal scale, I tend to agree with many of the comments. We have featured the excellent work of Bruce Wiegle in the magazine in the past and managed to catch up with him at Colours, so another game and rules of his will feature in a future issue.

Our ideal goal is to relfect the whole hobby, on as global a scale as possible. At the recent Colours show, I decided to gather figures for review from manufacturers we haven't featured before in non-28mm. I had intended to visit Heroics and Ros and Baccus but its always tough to grab product from busy traders. However, the fact that the Heroics and Ros stand was pretty much two or three deep with people buying post-1945 tanks and vehicles was hugely noticeable.

Simply put, like Guy, we'd love to feature more articles for a range of scales. Often, wherever possible, we try to talk about miniatures from a range of scales that can be used to game at different levels. But, as Peter stated, it really is difficult to do justice to 6mm in photographs, although not impossible. Also, I for one, as a long time reader of ALL the wargame magazines on the market (yes, I read them all, from White Dwarf to Miniature Wargames, and love the level of work Guy puts into WSS!) would love to feature other scales. A recent article we have from Piers Brand is about the 'Joy of 20mm World War Two', which I have to agree with.

The three main wargames magazines on the market cater for three different demographics, with a lot of crossover. Yes, we 'compete', but often it's more about showing off The Hobby in all its glory, from club nights (BTW, no one has submitted a Club Focus article to us for a while) to a visit to the Perry's. WI is very lucky to be based in Nottingham, which means we have access to some of the best companies in the business, but we can be a little lazy and focus on 28mm, largely because most of the main manufacturers around here do the same. If we're pressed for a deadline, our 'go to' is to grab some miniatures from one of these companies and get some scenic shots done.

Now, if people take the time to write quality articles, and marry these up with great photos or can come and visit us / we visit them for a photoshoot, we're more than happy to feature any scale at all. I'm personally hoping to re-visit the world of 20mm 'Moderns' soon, in conjunction with the rules and setting I had a hand in creating. I'll be gaming the Winter of '79 at my club again, taking photos and writing an article (one of my roles is in-house writer). The theme is 'The Russians are Coming...'.

If any member of the forum, a club, manufacturer or rules author wants to get in touch with me on wayne.bollands@wargamesillustrated.net, that would be great. Equally, Guy is a great, er, guy and John Treadaway at Mini Wargames is a great believer in the overall Hobby. If you would like to see more for the smaller scales in the 'Big Three', then feed us - the world of the media is a hungry beast and always looking for more! Please, spread the word.

Thnaks for reading, and hope to hear from you soon.

Wayne


PM Le Comte de Froufrou
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28mm games in the mags
Le Comte de Froufrou
27th Sep 2017 09:40:29

Thanks to Guy and Wayne for their comments.

Gentlemen, there is the challenge. Feed them. Articles, photos, anything to show just how varied the hobby can be. If we don't provide it, no-one else will.


PM chopperboydan
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28mm games in the mags
chopperboydan
28th Sep 2017 04:41:15

emails and pics sent! ;) come on chaps lets flood them with beautiful 6mm pics


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