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TOPIC: 28mm games in the mags
PM peter
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28mm games in the mags
peter
6th Oct 2017 11:57:38

Just gone and had a look at that thread.  Wow!   An awful lot of people once again not reading what I actually wrote and going off on one about that they THINK I was saying.    The original piece was never about 6mm.  It was about the seeming Orthodoxy of the hobby being presented as purely skirmish gaming in 28mm.    I'll repeat this section once again, as it seems to have bounced off the eyeballs and not made it down the wiggly tubes to the understanding section of the brain of quite a few commentators:

 'By the way, this is not my usual rant about the chronic under-representation of 6mm in their pages.   This applies equally to 42mm, 20mm, 15mm and any other number suffixed by mm that does not fall between the range 29 and 27.’

Equally a number of individuals firing off criticism without a true understanding or knowledge of the matter in hand firing off ill-informed opinion.   Just for the record, 6mm gaming is increasing in popularity, (I am on good terms with the other 6mm suppliers and all are increasing their sales), and as a few of you know, we can face periods where demand outstrips supply and that is with two of us casting full time.   6mm is a very buoyant and vibrant scale at the moment.  We are one of the very few full time businesses in the hobby with a turnover large enough to be force to register for VAT and we do sell millions of figures per year.   No, it most definitely not a rant from a chap seeing his business going to the dogs!     The thrust of the piece was that there is actually a large and thriving sub-28mm section of the hobby of which 6mm is a part that is not seen in the glossies and really deserves representation.

I'll skip over the personal comments from people who have never actually taken the time to engage properly with me and move to a section on the thread which highlights a point I made earlier.   LAF is very much a 28mm oriented forum.  As a result someone posting about their (for example) 6mm game does not get a great deal of positive or informed response.   As such there are fewer posts of this nature as people can go elsewhere to find a better reception and engagement and you end up with a self-selected group.   No problem with that - this forum is also a self-selected group.  However, it is the magazines that provide the best opportunity to provide an over-arching view of the hobby bringing these groups into some form of contact with each other. 

Finally, what sums up my frustration over many years of dealing with criticism and inputs from non-6mm gamers is summed up by this quote:

'figures are so small that they cannot be easily detailed, realistically proportioned, or individual,'

I know that the poster was actually trying to be positive and earlier admitted to having no contact with 6mm figures, but he felt that he was still able to pass a judgement on the quality and design of what was on offer.   As with many such pronouncements made over the years this was based on a feeling that as the castings are so small they cannot be any good.  What a dis-service to some amazing sculptors and modelmakers, and one made on no evidence at all other than gut-feeling and I have to say prejudice.   I would be interested to get the views of those who paint 150mm models as to what they think about 28mm figures.  I suspect that something similar may be handed down.

So yes, I'll take some bits of what was said on board and it's always interesting to hear the other side of the discussion. 

 

 

 

 


- The Overlord
PM Leftblank
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28mm games in the mags
Leftblank
7th Oct 2017 09:11:45

The LAF thread has some very biased postings, however the particular poster that I quoted was not really negative. He made a valid point. We paint miniatures and forget terrain. That's true for all scales, but even more for 6mm. The bigger the battle, the bigger the the importance of the battlemat.

And the bigger the importance of good battlemat pictures. 

I revisited the Jof6 2017 report. I must admit that if you look at the pictures as they are, they confirm the bias of many 28mm-players. The pictures show big green tables and no miniatures in sight. No visual appeal.

As 6mm-player I can see that the players paid a LOT of attention to the scenery, but the pictures are unremarkable. Compare them to the pictures of the superb wargame tables of Bruce Weigle or Mark Luther and you understand what I mean

  •  https://wargamecampaign.wordpress.com/2017/05/07/bruces-terrain/ or
  • the 6mm IABSM tables of Mark Luther https://www.flickr.com/photos/6mmgaming/albums/

 


http://amsterdam6shooters.nl "The tin soldier melted down into a lump, and the next morning, when the maid servant took the ashes out of the stove, she found him in the shape of a little tin heart." Hans Christiaan Andersen The Brave Tin Soldier

PM bushs
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28mm games in the mags
bushs
8th Oct 2017 05:36:07

Hi Leftblank,

Lots more photos of Weigles work can be found here;

http://vendheaume.fighters.pagesperso-orange.fr/guestfrt.html

I've never seen Luther's work before but its very good! I was thinking about experimenting with crayons already but now I'll give it a go for sure.


PM Glenn Pearce
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28mm games in the mags
Glenn Pearce
8th Oct 2017 02:26:25

I don't think the 28mm poster had a valid point at all. Bruce and Luther's work clearly shows that 6mm can be stunning. They are not alone, there are lots of outstanding 6mm terrain modellers out there, as there is for most scales. Obviously if your not looking for it, you won't see it.

The dominate scale in our hobby is 28mm, so it's only natural to assume that they have a better nack for terrain and that more of them pay attention to it. It's simply not true at all. I've seen terrible looking games in all scales and probably more of them were in 28mm. It's just not practical or logical to say that any "scale" has better or worse terrain effects. They all have their greats and dogs.

A large portion of the 6mm players are only recent arrivals to that scale, and simply have not had the time to develope their terrain.

As for photography of 6mm, you only have to look at some of the work done by our very own Peter Berry. He is a true artist who does not even have the very best equipment.

I think one of Peter's main points has now been resolved by at least two main magazines. Send them quailty articles with great photos and we will see more 6mm features.


PM Cannonfodder
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28mm games in the mags
Cannonfodder
8th Oct 2017 09:28:34

Hopefully on the right tack re the original thread, I'd agree with Pete's observations as I see SAGA, Chain of Command and the like well represented locally. What "mass battles" there are, use the Command and Colors family alongside 15mm minis. Most gamers 15's are DBX based and still get used for the bigger games, however 28's were based for WRG 6th (multi-based plus some individuals for casualties) or WAB (all individual) so skirmish armies are already there waiting for the rules. Once say SAGA came along, there are then players without 28mm armies who've taken the "quick and cheap" option to get a skirmish army to join in. Unfortunately basing figures strictly as recommended in skirmish rules makes them sod all use for much else (bar Impetus on sabot bases) so those armies won't then grow to mass battle forces. So the only new​ armies (which people will write for and photograph - not their old figures) are 28mm skirmish forces.

As for scale, I can't remember the last time I saw anyone locally with a new sub-28mm army  - albeit I have completed a 10mm army recently myself.  Shiny new plastic 28's may be to blame, but why (maybe new thread here) don't we see any plastic 15's, 10's or 6's ? If I recall GW did the first Epic 6mm Army boxes around 25 years ago.

 


PM peter
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28mm games in the mags
peter
9th Oct 2017 07:53:40

You can produce the eye candy shots with 6mm figures, but it takes a lot of effort and some fancy footwork.

The original hi-res version of this I am looking at on screen has those infantry standing approximately 25mm tall without any appreciable loss of detail.    The paint job obviously cannot match that of larger figures, but the sculpting certainly stands up to scrutiny.

 

 


- The Overlord
PM Glenn Pearce
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28mm games in the mags
Glenn Pearce
10th Oct 2017 03:17:30

Having painted 6mm for over 40 years, I would never dismiss that paint job as inferior to any scale. That photo is a magazine cover shot and stands second to none. A couple more shots like that and a few clever words and you would have a fabulous article. Perhaps something about the sculpting and or the period would be of great interest to readers of all scales.


PM Mollinary
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28mm games in the mags
Mollinary
21st Oct 2017 10:43:02

Well Peter, your efforts have borne fruit. My 10mm ECW game, ‘Lessie’s Moor’, demonstrating For King and Parliament, appeared at COLOURS last month. The November issue of Miniature Wargames includes John Treadaway’s report illustrated report on the show. My game is mentioned in the text, and is also featured as one of the photographs.  As 6mm of course!😱😱😱

Best,

Andrew


PM peter
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28mm games in the mags
peter
23rd Oct 2017 01:24:16

Andrew, looks like you are now firmly associated with 6mm in everyone's opinion.  Treat it as a Sign, abandon all those big figures and let yourself become truely and totally 6mm...


- The Overlord
PM ironass
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28mm games in the mags
ironass
18th Nov 2017 11:18:36

great posts... I mostly agree... I am 65 (not quite dead/getting better) I sold my 25 mm collection some years ago.... I can only be motivatd by 6 mm... because I love the room to manoevre part of it... cheers


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