Some rulesets, like Polemos Napoleonics but also Grande Armee & Horse, Foot and Guns suggest mounting skirmishers on the same bases as formed troops but some players prefer using separate bases of skirmishers.  Which do you prefer?

It depends on the rules, and basing. For Lasalle, I have several individually based skirmishers in front of the unit; for Bluecher or Grande Armee, they're on the base.

Hello John!

Upon developing RdG I decided that skirmishers needed a more effective system. They needed to have similar effects to light infantry units. So I did that in RdG. All light infantry units and skirmishers use an entire base and operate in a similar fashion to formed units (within the game) except they have additional light infantry features, such as move faster and are harder to hit. The other qualities such as shooting and fighting are of course dependent on their actual abilities. For skirmishers from individual battalions I simply consolidate them into a skirmish battalion and it performs that function for the brigade. So for a brigade of four battalions I would use three formed battalions and one skirmish battalion. I simply use a free form sliding scale for the ratio of skirmish battalions vs formed battalions depending on the country and troops. A French brigade for example would have more skirmish battalions than an Austrian Brigade, who in some cases may have none. All Legere, Grenz, Rifle, etc. battalions are all treated as skirmishers/light infantry.

In some scenarios when entire Brigades of French break down into skirmsihers that is simply written into the scenario.

I've been doing this for well over 10 years now and I sincerely feel that it's a system that finally gives a proper balance to light infantry and skirmishers.

Hopes this helps, and if anything is not clear, just ask.

Best regards,

Glenn

I have never been able to get my head around the basing of lights/skirmishers. I wargame the Risorgimento and have large Piedmontese, French and Austrian Armies. Using Piedmont as can example, each division consists of two brigades. Each brigade of two regiments and each regiment 4 line battalions. That makes 16 battalions based 24 figures 60x30mm each per division.  Now comes my problem. As well as the usual attached cavalry and artillery there is also attached to each brigade a Bersaglieri battalion. My problem is how do i represent this on the battlefield. As light infantry is it a 60x30mm stand with some random figures OR is it two 60x30mm stands with 12 figures per stand OR is it four 60x30mm stands with 6 figures per stand? I would appreciate your input. Thanks

Hello IR1Lothringen!

Thats difficult to say as a lot would depend on the rules that your using. As long as you can somehow use them under the rules that you are using I would recommend that you simply conform to your basing sytem. In other words since your line battalions are on 60x30 bases I would also mount your Bersaglieri on the same base as your indicating the 60x30. If your using a Polemos style of rules then the number of figures on a base mean nothing, use as many as you want. I use 8 figures for mine. In RdG it shows 4-8 figures. I would also only use one base per battalion just to keep it simple. I'm not well versed in your particular period, but most light infantry battalions in the H&M period generally maintained a frontage similar to their line counterparts. If required to extend their frontage beyond that you can simply create a house rule. There is no need to drag around a number of extra bases.

Hope this helps you out.

Best regards,

Glenn

Glenn, thank you for your response. I probably have far more skirmish bases than I need although I currently vary the number of figures on a base 3, 5 or 7 to represent poor, good and excellent skirmishing which some rules use. My problem with the Bersaglieri may stem from a misconception on my part that the Bersaglieri would skirmish for their attached brigade. As a brigade has 8 60x30mm line bases the idea of a single Bersaglieri base seems wrong. CAN ANYONE CONFIRM IF THIS WAS THE PRACTICE or have I got it completely wrong. I have an aweful feeling I may have to rebase most of my skirmisher bases! I cannot get it out of my head that skirmishers or light infantry would operate in a more open order and consequently occupy more space, hence more stands. Thanks

Hello IR1Lothringen!

Your welcome!

I'm only guessing but the ratio of line vs lights seems too high for a single battalion to screen 8 line battalions. I suspect the lights were simply used as advance/rear/flank guards when the brigade is moving. On the battlefield I would assume that the line battalions are capable of doing their own skirmishing. The lights would simply be assigned as needed to a particular location.

Although lights do generally operate in an extended order they also try to maintain a sizeable reserve so that the skirmish line can be reinforced/replaced, etc. So the frontage they occupy is not perhaps as great as you might think. Some lights were expected to also fight in close order if and when needed. Since the Brigade would have been assigned a given area of ground based on the number of battaions that they had I would be surprised if a light battalion was assigned a frontage that was much different then line battalions. Obviously in situations where you needed a battalion to extend it's frontage the lights would probably be the first choice.

So before getting stressed about needing more bases for your lights I would suggest you try and obtain a source that covers the tactics for this period. Unless of course someone chimes in with all your answers.

Hopefully this helps and if I can assist you any further, just ask.

Best regards,

Glenn

I've sort of answered this question in another thread started by IRLothringen, but please do keep on chatting.  Some good replies so far.

Hello IR1Lothringen!

I had some spare time so I did a little digging. It seems that the line battalions only contained fusilier and grenadier companies. So I can see why Peters contact didn't want line skirmishers. However, there are two other things to consider. Grenadiers are generally trained to skirmish and by this point in time most nations armies had evolved into the sort of universal soldier where all companies could skirmish. This was pretty much true through out most of the H&M period. Just some were better at it then others. Battalions pretty much always needed to look out for themselves in combat and on the move. To not be able to deploy skirmishers seems completely out of step with standard military practice of the time and would leave the battalion open to surprise attacks. I would think that a battalion that can't deploy skirmishers would be poorly trained, new drafts, etc. It's possible the line troops were that bad, but all of them, seems unlikely.

As I mentioned earlier one battalion of bersaglieri skirmishing for eight line battalions seems too low. If the brigade is in two lines of four battalions each then it's possible for one battalion of lights to screen them. Still that could be pretty thin in some situations. I don't think it's possible for one light battalion to effectively screen eight battalions in a single line.

So to properly answer your questions I think you need to find out two things. Did line battalions deploy their own skirmishers or not and what skirmishers were deployed to screen a brigade. My guess is they all came from the line battalions and the bersaglieri where tasked with speacial operations which sometimes could include supplementing the line battalions in skirmishing.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

Glenn

Great find there Mollinary! Thanks for sharing, I just finished reading it.

It appears that on the battlefield the Bersaglieri did indeed handle all the skirmishing for the line units. The line units were expected to deliver the firepower in line or in column and close with the bayonet. The universal soldier concept apparently hadn't made it to this army. Line units always acted as heavy infantry and the Bersaglieri did most of the light infantry stuff for the entire brigade. So there is no need for Peter to produce any line infantry skirmishing.

In the diagram it appears to me that the single company of Bersaglieri are spread out acting as a sort of advance guard. The two line battalions appear to be mainly on a narrow frontage strung out behind. Looks to me like it could be a way to move on the battlefield.

IR1Lothringen

It seems to me that if the Bersaglieri are doing all the skirmishing for an entire Brigade that they would not likely ever operate as an entire battalion unless on some type of special mission.  Soooo, depending on the rules that your using you might not need to even have battalions of Bersaglieri. You could simply consider them as an addional factor for the line battalions. But that would be no fun, and who wants to not have Bersaglieri in their army! My suggestion would be to split each Bersaglieri battalion into two 60x30 bases and treat them each as a battalion. Yes that probably makes them a little too powerful. But it allows you to spread them out a little more and in the bigger scheme of things it probably gives the Brigades fighting power a better balance.

Let me know what you decide.

Best regards,

Glenn