Hello all - FNG here.  I'm an old board wargamer who loves the look of Baccus 6mm figures. I'm seriously interested in getting into ACW miniatures. However, there are some questions that you all may be able to help address first, especially concerning basing. 

1) The rules I'm planning to use have brigades of infantry as the basic unit. Each brigade consists of up to 4 regimental increments / steps.

2) My thought is to have a brigade consist of 4 strips of infantry of 4 figures each. 
Each 'regimental' strip of 4 figures in a sigle rank would be mounted on its own magnetized metal base c. 20 cm long by 5 cm wide. 

The strips would then go atop a larger brigade base of steel (able to hold magnets) measuring c 40cm long and 20 cm wide. Two strips would be placed side by side as a front rank, with the other two strips side by side in a rear rank. 

2) The rules employ incremental losses so as casualties occur a strip would be removed. I know many players use things like micro dice to mark losses, but I'd prefer removing figures.

So ... is the above a viable plan?  Or are there aspects here - based on your gaming experiences - that are impractical and need improvement?

For example, might it be better to have 4 'regimental' bases (of  two men in two ranks) sit side by side atop the brigade base? Might having regiments of 6 men (two ranks of 3 figures) be easier for fat fingers to handle? Sabot basing was also suggested as a possibilty, but this would appear to stretch my limited basing capabilities way too far. 

3) Base thickness is another aspect I'm wrestling with. I'd envisioned mountingthe infantry strips directly atop magnetic adhesive sheets, and then flocking them somehow. Is this practical? I dont think I'd particularly mind if the figures stood  c. 3 cm high or even slightly higher, as a tall brigade base  would allow for unit information (like unit starting morale/experience) to be displayed only to the unit owner on the rear of the unit.

Appreciate any insights, recommendations etc you may have. I don't desire to spend a lot of money to begin with and will likely be buying my figures through a painting service as it is. Thanks.

- Zeitsev

As such, what is the smallest base size you would  recommend to represent a "step"?  

Hello Zeitsev!

Welcome to the forum and the wonderful world of Baccus 6mm. Great choice ACW, the Baccus line of figures is outstanding.

You are of course able to base your figures anyway you want. So I can only share my experince with you and hope it helps you out in some way.

The best approach is to base your figures to fit the scale and not any particular rule set. Although the Baccus ACW figures are pretty sturdy you still want to avoid handling 6mm figures as much as possible. They are simply not designed to stand up to a lot of handling without being damaged. If possible you also want to avoid using small bases to not only minimize damage but they are also fiddly to handle.

Prior to Baccus 6mm basing was all over the place. Baccus established a very simple and now extremely popular basing system which is used in their Polemos rules but can be used for almost any rule set. The main base which is now called by many as "standard 6mm basing" is 60mm x 30mm. Others that are used, 60mm x 60mm and 30mm x 30mm. The 60x30 is often used to represent  battalion based games and the 60x60 is sometimes used for brigade based games. Some simply use two 60x30 bases for flexability rather than be locked into the single 60x60 base.

Most modern rules don't remove figures they simply use markers or dice as you have noted. The Polemos rules are very simple in using a marker to reflect losses so most people don't actually mark or label their bases in anyway. Those that do prefer markers and labels generally put an information or label strip at the back of the base with a dice holder. My choice and the most popular one is not to use any labels. The simple marker does it all and only effects those bases that are damaged. Your not constantly looking at a sea of bases with labels and dice holders. They just make the table look ugly.

The other thing to keep in mind is that you have no idea where the hobby will lead you. You might want to try new rules, new periods or meet new friends. So if you adopt a popular system you won't have to make new changes everytime you move forward.

Hope some of this helps you and if I can assist you any further just ask.

Best regards,

Glenn

I note that your design made no mention of cavalry or artillery. How were you planning on representing these?

If you actually want to play the historical battles of the ACW, then Altar of Freedom, using Baccus figures on standard 60x30 bases has been my choice. A superb set of rules enabling 95% of ACW battles to be fought on  a 6x4 or smaller table, with no casualty removal but instead utilising the excellent Baccus casualty figures. The rules are also extremely well supported with two huge scenario books, free paper buildings in half scale (3mm) to minimise footprint, terrain tips, two free campaigns (Vicksburg and Gettysburg), a news page, where comments and questions can be posted, and the support of Little Wars TV. To cap it all the tabletop battles look brilliant - take a look at the various AARs on the site.

www.6mmacw.com

Unfortunately I cannot fathom how to directly link this as I don't know what an url is, only what an earl is, but it's not too long an address to remember.

It's perfeclty possible to base directly onto the magnetic sheets.  Here are some Frenchies I have mounted onto a self adhesive sheet.  I sprinkle some sand on as well to stop the sticky parts staying sticky. 

 To properly finish them I will add diluted PVA to put more fine sand on, then paint and grass it.

I think it would also look a bit weird to have a brigade with three casualties.  You would have four guys standing on a bloody big base.  The four casualties can't represent 25% casualites for each step but simply a quarter of the way to combat ineffectiveness (which is perhaps reached at 50% casualties).  So I think you should at least go for half the figures on a base non removable.  This would point to a brigade with 12 figures wide and 2 deep.  If you wanted removale of figures you could take off four at a time from the rear row.  Once the whole row is gone any additional casualty removes the whole base.  It would also allow the colour party to be present on the base all the time.  This would also marry with the 60 by 30 base outlined above so if it doesn't work in practice you are already working with a system size that will work with casualty figures or micro dice.  

https://www.6mmacw.com

Gentlemen - Thanks all for your quick and thorough replies. Let me try to address the points you have raised.

Littlewarstv: They are a key reason I'm here, dourpuritan. Love their vids, own Altar of Freedom rules and am waiting for them to do the promised Age of Hannibal rules tutorial before I buy them. To be frank though, the Leader rules - a key aspect of the game - seems a little obtuse. But I havent yet played with them so that's just an impression. I also bought the Blucher rules, but am slightly put off by all brigades being the same size (even with the Over/Understrength trait). I have really only played minis at conventions, and never with 6mms. One aspect I really dislike is the imprecision of  firing ranges and movement. Moving and measuring with tape measures and rulers is very fiddly to me, and to my wargame buddies.  So, I'll likely convert whatever rules I finally settle on to a game board which is subtly gridded off into hexes or bricks. Right now Im looking at using some variant of Columbia Games 'Dixie' or Gettysburg games or Worthington's 'Hold the Line' system. Im comfortable with block wargames, and basically Im looking to use 6mm minis as replacements for them.  Hence the interest in four step/increment brigades.

Basing - Armed with what you guys provided, I spent some time on the web researching sizes. On a site called 'The Miniatures Page' there was an old, very spirited dialogue between Glenn and some other guys on optimal base size.  After digesting a lot of material and the respective arguments,  Im currently leaning toward (drumroll please)...four magnetized subbases atop a 60x30 brigade base.  Each subbase will be 15cm wide and 30 deep (column like formation) and sit side by side on the large base. Each subbase will have two ranks consisting of either 2 or 3 figures/rank. I'm leaning this way for several reasons. As Jon1066 pointed out, it might look weird as front or rear subunits get removed. By removing side by side columns, itll look less weird. That was a big piece of helpful advice.  And if I find I dont like removing substands, I get the benefits of the semi-standard 60x30 base that Glenn has suggested and can switch over to mini-dice or other markers. You gents also asked about cavalry and artillery.  For now, Im looking at doing the Battle of Antietam in ACW as my base game. Cavalry there isnt a big concern. Artillery will likely be represented in 'battalions' (60x30 base) composed of four batteries with sub bases of 15x30 each).  If I later do say 1815 Ligny in Napoleonics, Ill likely use the same 15x30 bases with two ranks of 1 or 2 figs.

So now the big question is: how do I construct the 15x30 sub bases? I plan to use magnetic sheet material. Based on what Ive read, there is enough stiffness in that such that a second cardborad or mdf stiffener is not needed. jon1066's figures look awesome and have whet my appetite to go forward. But I'd appreciate your thoughts on the above.

I have toyed with translating BBB into hexes - I even experimented with converting a scenario map to hexes for it. All measurements in BBB are in 3" increments which would obviously slot nicely into hexes. BBB ticks another of your boxes (or hexes?) as it uses casualty removal. Infantry units range from 2 to 7 bases strong, so you might need some provision for units extending across 2 hexes if they are large enough and/or deployed in a firing line rather than in depth. Oh, and there are plenty of ACW scenarios available from the BBB Yahoo group files. (All 3 days of Gettysburg in an evening, 4 players, 6'x4' table, on a Monday night at the club and still made it to the pub for a post-battle drink.)

Good luck with finding a ruleset that suits you.

Chris

Bloody Big BATTLES!

https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BBB_wargames/info

http://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/

The magnetic sheet will be stiff enough to base directly.  The infantry above are on 50 by 10 mm.  Cavalry are on 50 by 20 and artillery 25 by 25 so not disimilar to your proposed sizes.  The PVA and sand also helps stiffen them up a bit as well.  The sheet I used was 1.5 mm thick.  Good luck with your project - look forward to seeing the results.

Hello Zeitsev!

I'm not familiar with the games you mention, but I assume their board games.  Traditionally board games are more abstract then miniature rules so trying to transfer their concepts to miniatures oddly enough often requires additional abstraction. The end result is usually too great of a compromise for most players. Of course if your strictly trying  to only please a select group then you know your players and what makes them happy is all that matters. However, most miniature rules have less compromises then board games and often open up an entirely new level of gaming that is generally beyond what could be obtained within the confines of a board game. 

Alter of Freedom and Blucher are enjoyed by a number of players, but they don't work for me either. So I think that you just haven't found the miniature rules that appeal to you. There are lots out there. You might want to do some more looking before trying to do the monstrous task of converting a board game. Polemos ACW is another first rate ACW rule set, but it's not to everyone's taste. We use Polemos Ruse de Guerre (that I wrote) for all of our Horse & Musket games. For any periods outside of its inherent design we simply write a couple of game designer scenario rules applied only to any specific game.  Most of our ACW games are played as is. Again these rules are not to everyone's taste.  

I also don't like measuring tapes or rulers, but their pretty simple to use and its part of the culture of miniature wargaming. The Polemos rules and some others use "base widths" as a standard measurement tool. It's just a ruler under a different name, but it allows players to remember the distances better and it gradually becomes a part of their thought process. They instinctively learn by eyesight how far things are away and what complications will be encountered, etc. The actual measuring sticks that you make are also less fiddly and with care can look very attractive.   

We played with hexes for a number of years and found that they just don't work as well with miniatures. Two of the major concerns were your forced into an unnatural position with your playing pieces. The shape of the grid never allows you to line up with your opponent in every possible way.  Positioning is critical in the H&M era. It also does not reflect flanks very well. Which is another critical concern in the era. Board games have compromised these concerns to simply make a game feasible. You don't have to make these compromises with miniatures if you don't want to. There are, however, a number of miniature players who use hexes and love them.  They simply ignore the compromises or don't even know they exist.

The Miniatures Page for many years was plagued with a handful of agitators'. People who just wanted to upset others or impose their point of view at any cost. Thankfully most of them are now banned. So I'm delighted to learn that you were able to clear out the crap and sort things out to your satisfaction. I also love the drum roll!

As you have probably noted the Baccus Forum is the best as it's simply full of people that want to help each other and share their knowledge. No one is trying to impose themselves on others. Best place by far to find friendly helpful people.

Before moving forward you might want to take a closer look at how you will base your cavalry and artillery as leaving it to later could leave you in the position where the infantry work fine but the others don't. If so you might have to start all over.  Cavalry is probably pretty easy as a 60x30 base will hold 9 figures. So you could fix 3 of them and have 3 sets of two as removable.  That would give you your four steps and give your cavalry  brigades the same frontage as your infantry brigades. Artillery will give you more problems as a single gun and crew are normally put on a 30x30 base. A limber pretty much fills a 60x30 base. Some players don't use limbers and create little mobile tanks that bob and weave all over the table since they are free of the actual encumbrance of limbers. Creates a very silly game, but lots of players do it. Regardless of limbers or not you could fix one crew member with the gun and have the other 3 removable.

Okay so the above might work but now you have a scale imbalance along with a distribution problem. The artillery base takes up half the frontage of a brigade. That's probably too wide for the ACW or represents too many guns. Some brigade based games overcome this problem by not having separate  artillery bases, they simply factor their presence into the value of the infantry or cavalry brigades. Which is okay but it's a big compromise and starts to erode the feeling of a miniatures game and give it the feeling of a board game. This you might like but some miniature players don't and it's one of the turn off factors to brigade games for them.

I want to mention again my point about 6mm figures being handled. They are not designed to withstand multiple handlings. They can bend very easily and parts will break off. The less handling the better. If you can design your system to minimize the handling I think you will be happier.

Overall the task you are undertaking is significant, so if you can find a rule set that has some compromises that you can live with I think it will be easier for you. Then once you master the handing of miniatures and all of the complications, work on your own set at your leisure.  This is what some miniature players do. While others just accept the rules they have, as once they realize the full scope of the task, it's found to be overwhelming.

Hopefully you can use some of what I've said and if you have any further questions, just ask.

Best regards,

Glenn