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TOPIC: Basing & Rules
PM senormeek
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Posts: 7
Basing & Rules
senormeek
9th Sep 2016 02:15:19

Hi Glenn. Sorry, your advice is definitely helpful and welcome. I have had quite firm views of what I want but am definitely open to them being challenged. I recognise there are downsides to my position as with others. You have definitely got my brain ticking over though! I may have made a mistake putting a large order in with only a minimal number of command strips!

 

And thanks Whirlwind.


PM senormeek
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Posts: 7
Basing & Rules
senormeek
9th Sep 2016 02:19:13

Oh and Glenn, did I read somewhere that you'd done the whole Waterloo OOB on battalion bases of 60x30? or was it Brigade. Or did I make it up?! cheers


PM Glenn Pearce
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Posts: 178
Basing & Rules
Glenn Pearce
9th Sep 2016 06:43:52

Hello Mike!

Your more then welcome as well. This forum is full of people who only want to help others and share whatever knowledge they have. You will get all kinds of different views as well. Best forum ever.

Peter generally prefers you outline a big project with him before you order and then he can customize the number of command strips that you will need. So when your finally firm on exactly how many extra command stands you will need simply contact him with your totals and he will certainly do his best to work something out for you. He may also have some great advice about others who may have gone down a similar path.

Yes we did Waterloo and the entire 1815 campaign with battalion bases of 60x30. We have done just about every major Napoleonic battle at that scale. Some a number of times. On some occasions if a battle is too big for my table and we only have a couple of players we use the same bases as brigades for a fast game. We also do the reverse if its a small battle and use two or three 60x30 bases as a battalion. To the untrained eye all the battles look the same, a table full of battalions. We also use the same rules so there is nothing to remember or learn or change when we switch scales. At last count I had some 40,000 figures and recently obtained another large collection that I've yet to count. Except for a few they are all on 60x30 bases.

I think the battalion based game is the sweet spot for Napoleonic gaming. The company based games have too many moving parts and slow the game down too much. The brigade based games are too fast and simple, and too board game like. However, all three have good value in different circumstances.

Best regards,

Glenn


PM I am a spambot
Standard User
Posts: 47
Basing & Rules
I am a spambot
10th Sep 2016 01:50:14

Hello Steve.  The 80mm by 40mm bases that I used had 48 infantry figures in 3 ranks of 16, or 9 cavalry figures.  I did this army to use with the 'Volley and Bayonet' rules.

The 60mm by 40mm bases that I use for Napoleonic armies and the AWI usually have 24 infantry figures in 2 lines of 12, or 9 cavalry figures.

I prefer rectangular to square bases.  If I want to depict columns I have one infantry base behind another.


PM bushs
Standard User
Posts: 52
Basing & Rules
bushs
12th Sep 2016 05:49:28

Hi Spambot,

Thanks for getting back to me with that info. It's filled in some gaps.

I've never played 'Volley and Bayonet' so now I know where the 80x40 base size originates from.

It's a bit concerning to me that 48 figures a base became a big job to paint and put together... I guess if I'm building brigade bases I don't need as many as I'd need for a battalion style game (sounds like V&B is a battalion style game but I don't know).

Yeah I definitely prefer rectangular footprints. I'm shooting for the squares because it conforms to existing rulesets i.e. MdE and FPGA.

Best regards,

Steve


PM bushs
Standard User
Posts: 52
Basing & Rules
bushs
12th Sep 2016 06:12:14

Hi Glenn,

I happened to play a large multiplayer game of 28s on the weekend. Reflecting on the base size discussion of last week I noticed the following:

1) The cav was based on 90x(~70-80) pretty big. As the cav figures are much bigger than 6's they have a much higher centre of gravity. They didn't slip down or topple over when sitting on steepish slopes because the bases were so deep that the back of the base was resting on the tabletop while the leading edge was on the slope. I'm thinking 6's on similar sized bases should sit better on slopes because of their lower centre of gravity.

2) The cav bases felt nicer to pick up and place compared to the infantry bases which were 40x40. Probably because of the weight (guys at my club are often commenting about prefering the feel of metal figures compared to plastics which I agree with). Also smaller numbers of big bases just seem to make for better experience than moving lots of smaller bases (maybe that depends on the day or something).

3) The way large bases sit on terrain is likely to be a function of the terrain design. e.g. If a person designs their hills with gradual slopes then bases will sit better on them then when compared to hills with steep slopes.

4) I think the 60x30 is the best for you and your group of players because it gives you maximum flexibility to swing between 1 base = battalion/brigade/companys.  

I'm still considering the pros and cons of all this base configuration stuff. But for me the 6's are about the diorama effect, and also provides something quick and easy to setup and play during the week after a day a work.

And I feel that it's true what you say about the brigade game feeling closer to a board game then a wargame, but that's probably what I'm shooting for in this scale at least for the moment.

Best regards,

Steve


PM Glenn Pearce
Standard User
Posts: 178
Basing & Rules
Glenn Pearce
15th Sep 2016 01:13:32

Hello Steve!

Nice to see that your still mulling over your options and checking things out to see how they might work for you.

Just to throw out some more for you to consider. Some time ago I thought about building some brigade sabots as well for the exact same reasons as you, quick and easy games. I would build them 120mm x 60mm. That would allow me to put any mix of four of my units (60x30) on the sabot. I could also add in some artillery on a 30x30 base (just the gunners and gun) or officers also on 30x30, whenever I had less than four units. I could also use some empty filler bases 30x30 to take up any slack and of course put whatever I want on them, dead guys etc. I could also only put three units on a sabot and have a full information/dice box etc. on a 30x30 that I could put anywhere on the sabot. Lots of options here. Although this would give me a pretty wide footprint I think it would be a little more in scale vs a square as to what a brigade would occupy. It would also be shorter then the 75x75, giving my table a little more depth. At first glance the unit sounds too wide but presently my brigades if in line are at least 180mm wide. Most are wider as only a few have only three units/battalions at 60x30 each. If a double line of battalions is used then of course thats 60mm deep. So my table would actually be bigger scale wise.

This also allows me to customize my brigades. I'm not forced to build a new brigade everytime I need a different looking or mix. I simply create a new brigade label (30x30) and pick out the appropriate units from my collection.

In the end this simply gives me another option for the bigger battles. I could also make a "light" version of our rules that would streamline it even more. This is perhaps a long term project for me as I have a rather long list of other projects that I should do first.

I'm only mentioning this to you as it could be another way for you to also build your brigade bases. Most if not all of the brigade games that I know of will also work with rectangle bases. Some may simply require a couple of minor rule adjustments.

Anyway as always, I'm only trying to show you as many options as possible. I also have seen this sort of thing done before, only I think the sabot and battalion bases were slightly smaller maybe 80x40 and 40x20. With a little creativity they looked just as impressive as a fixed brigade base.

I kind of like the phrase "go big or go home" (120x60).

Best regards,

Glenn

 

 


PM bushs
Standard User
Posts: 52
Basing & Rules
bushs
17th Sep 2016 05:45:15

Hi Glen,

I think your concept for the 120x60 is a good one (quite neat!). However, I'm not sure that this will work for me. The games I have been playing so far seem to have been successful because of the ability of the opposing sides to out maneuvre each other, which is something I haven't been able to replicate with 15's on a 6'x4' table. A quick analysis (which may be flawed):

20 units

6' table = 6x12x25.4=1,829mm

impetus cav base (80mm frontage) = 1,600mm -> 0.87

MdE (60mm frontage) = 1,200mm -> 0.66

GA (75mm fr) = 1,500mm -> 0.82

Go Big (120mm fr) = 2,400mm -> 1.31

Even with Go Big using 15 units gives a board to unit frontage ratio of 0.98

Whereas I know that a 20 unit game of 60mm units gives me a good game. I can compromise using 75's by shooting for 15-16 units which gives me a ratio similar to that of 20x60mm units.

Am I thinking about this the wrong way?

Regards,

Steve


PM Glenn Pearce
Standard User
Posts: 178
Basing & Rules
Glenn Pearce
17th Sep 2016 12:58:10

Hello Steve!

Thanks, but really my "Go Big" ideas will probably never see the light of day. Thats in part due to..............wait for it "maneuvre". We think the sweet spot in Napoleonic games is the ability to "maneuvre the battalions in your brigades". So sort of the same problem your dealing with only on a bigger scale.

I think when Polemos Napoleonics was developed they realized that the average table was 6x4. So expanding the frontage beyond 60mm would limit the size of your playing area. MdE was one of the last brigade games out of the gate. Thats in part why its so brilliant. You can make a good looking yet compact brigade base 60x60 or simply use two 60x30 battalion bases.

Keep in mind unlike some of the others MdE can also be played as a regimental game, which would allow you to play a lot of your games at a lower level, which is of course closer to Glenns sweet spot.

In the end my own view is the 75, 80 and 120 widths are show stoppers in the looks department, but fall short in terms of practicallity and playability. But I'm not you and you have to follow your own dreams. Whats the point in building something that you won't enjoy looking at and playing with?

Our hobby is all about compromises and difficult choices.

Best regards,

Glenn


PM bushs
Standard User
Posts: 52
Basing & Rules
bushs
31st Mar 2017 06:18:31

Hi All,

I'm looking for examples (ideas and inspiration) in 6mm of Blucher style basing incorporating attached batteries.

If anybody has photos of their basing setouts of a brigade incorporating an attached battery I'd greatly appreciate you posting your photos here.

So far I've found some nice photos of this sort of thing on the stevenkelly1.blogspot, one example (if you look really hard) on paintingshed.blogspot, and one more example on onesidedminiaturewargamingdiscourse.blogspot.

...from the exmaples I've found so far it looks a bit like you have to use 20 or less figures per battalion in order to accomodate the gun and crew figures on the base.

Best regards,

Steve


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