For my ongoing ancients project, I might need some help.

I am at work building up my Greeks and Persians, I already plan my next orders. While one direction will definitely be Macedonians, I also would like to make a side trip to Egypt.

In 404BC Amenirdis, the only pharaoh of the 28th dynasty revolted successfully against Persia, this prompted a new round of wars between Egypt and Persia with various attempts of reconquest by Persia until 343BC, when Persia finally was successful.

During different periods of these wars, Egypt hat Greek help from either Athens, Sparta or Kyrene and it would be nice to incorporate it into my project.

But I am not completely sure about units for the Egyptian battlefield. It would be nice to hear the thoughts of others on Egyptian Army composition. Here is what I was thinking:

From the Persian and Egyptian Army

• APE11 - Egyptian Marines (for Spearmen)
• AEG01 - Egyptian Spearmen (for levy Spearmen)
• AEG02 - Egyptian Archers
• AEG03- - Egyptian Axemen (does somebody know if Egypt was still using them?)
• AEG04 - Egyptian Light Archers
• AEG05 - Nubian Archers
• AEG08 - Egyptian Chariots
• AEG09 - Egyptian Command

Proxys:

• AMO01 - Moorish Infantry (For Nubian Infantry?)
• AMO03 - Moorish Cavalry (For Nubian Cavalry?)
• CIS06 - Bedouin Light Cavalry (As Arab Mercenary Cavalry?)
• CIS15 - Sudanese Archers (As Arab Mercenary Archers?)
• CMA04 - Mahdist Camelry (As Arab Mercenary Camal Riders)

What I still lack completely is Egyptian Cavalry, Nubian Spearmen, Arab Spearmen.

Perhaps you now something or can help me out here or just have thoughts about the hole crazy idea ?

Cheers,

Kai

All seems quite reasonable to me Kai, but my knowledge on their particular period and region isn't that good. You seem to have picked on the same sort of proxies that I have for my Arabs as most of them would have still been wearing kilts or tunics at this time.

If you are a member of the Society of Ancients you could post a question on their forum under the Army Research heading and some more informed grey-beards will probably respond.

Alternatively, it seems like you may be doing this as a solo project so go ahead with what you feel appropriate. Look forward to seeing the photographs of them in action!

Hey David,

thank you for you answer and i might youst try society of ancients for more informaton, by the way did you field Arab infantry in your projekt and what did you use ?

(Still haven found somthing for Arbab close comabt infantry.)

It is not easy to get reliable information about that period cause you can not belive the greeks concerning troop strenght and quality, the greeks still insist today that xerses marsched with a million men against them. ;)

I will load up photographs from the projekt as soon as i have somthing to show, at the moment i paint greeks but of course my baccus basing set is coming the next weeks then i can show of a little.

Becuase this will be a giant projekt from greek hoplite warfare to imperial rome it will probably take a while, maybe i will start a blog......

Cheers

Kai

A couple of thoughts from me. 

The two horse Egyptian chariot might be a little lightweight for the time period, and chariots at this time were becoming rarer anyway. I don't think the Indian chariots look quite right, and we've seen a teaser for a lovely Assyrian/Babylonian chariot, but it is not released yet. Once it comes out it would work well with a different crew. 

As for Egyptian cavalry, I had thought about using Persian Colonist cavalry (APE21).

I also wonder whether the Mahdist infantry (CMA01) would do for Arabs and maybe the Sudanese Spearmen (CIS16) for Nubian (proto-Sudanese) spearmen. I don't think the banners are right, but otherwise they look like they might paint up nicely.

I would need to check my reference books Kai, but I'm not too sure that the Arabs (in the sense of the very early bedouins) had much in the way of close order infantry. If they did they were potentially like their open order comrades except bunched closer together.

Not too sure about the heavier chariots or the double armed cavalry wearing tunics for the Egyptians.

I have used mostly numidians and other similar types for my Arabs so far. Rapier Miniatures produce some compatible figures that fit in and Irregular Miniatures produce some standards that could be used as alternatives.

I started my 6mm army collection about 15 years ago after a 30 year break from wargaming and have completed about 7,000 figures. There are some photos of their exploits in the gallery section.

@Duncan

hey,

thanks for the tip with the chariots and cavalry, if there realy are new models in the pipeline i might wait with Eagypt a bit and go to Syrakyus vs Chartage first. From what i read tEagypt never lost their taste for chariots until Alexander, they might have employed less but thats wy i am looking for cavalry anyway, becaus they probably lerned to use cavalry from the Persians. I will chek out Persian Colonist cavalry Sudanese Spearmen (CIS16) thx for the tips to.

My main problem is that a lotof the sources about this periods are Greek and they wrote that "Xerses Army was so big that the water of rivers did not suffice for all of them.". I tend to not trust all sources here. :)

@David

I might have used the term "Arabs" here to lightly, Eagypt was on of the richest region in the area and has always made used of mercenarys in times of need. The two most ready available sources of mercs for Eagypt  are Nubia and the desert nomads.I called them Arabs because i assume that they are not that diffrent from each other. ;)

I will look at the Rapier minatures thank you.

Kai, I did check my reference books and Duncan Head's "The Achaemnid Persian Army" and he does refer to Egyptians, the revolt and Arabs. He suggests that there would have been few chariots in Egyptian armies of the time.

He also "rationalises" some of the likely numbers for Persian armies for several campaigns.

@ David

Thank you, that book was completet beneth my radar, but i did grab it right away, it will help me immens in planing the revolt.

I decided to go to Syrakus first now but only because i was not sure about egypt, well i have time... i hope.

Just finishd my 400th, 6mm mini, some Persian Archers, feel like i should celebrate. ;)

cheers

Kai

Looking back at a really old army list book (WRG Army Lists Book 1 August 1981) for another reason, I came across the Saitic Eygptian (660-525BCE and 405-335BCE) list. This list includes four-horse heavy chariots with driver and two crew. Axemen don't get a mention though.

Hey David,

thanks i will try to lay my greedy fingers around a copy of that book.

I also found one army list for the revolt in FOG-Immortal Fire.