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TOPIC: Peninsular Spanish Dragoons.
PM Spangenhelm
Standard User
Posts: 47
Peninsular Spanish Dragoons.
Spangenhelm
21st May 2016 06:42:25

Just paint the heavy cavalry breastplate yellow?  Or is there some other recommendation from the Napoleonic scholars?  Very much a novice here on all things Napoleonic.


PM njt236
Standard User
Posts: 220
Peninsular Spanish Dragoons.
njt236
21st May 2016 10:24:39

 

Coat, waistcoat and breeches were yellow with the following facing colours for regiment Rey crimson, Reina light red, Almansa light blue, Villaviciosa and Sagunto green, Pavia red, Numancia and Lusitania black. Pavia, Sagunto and Lusitania had yellow collars. Coat turnbacks were yellow. Shabraques were yellow edged whiteIn 1807-08 Almansa and Villaviciosa wore green dolman and breeches with red facings . Shako had red plume. NO breastplates


Through the travail of the ages Midst the pomp and toil of war Have I fought and strove and perished Countless times upon this star.
So as through a glass and darkly The age long strife I see Where I fought in many guises, Many names but always me.
So forever in the future Shall I battle as of yore, Dying to be born a fighter But to die again once more.         

                G S Patton

PM Spangenhelm
Standard User
Posts: 47
Peninsular Spanish Dragoons.
Spangenhelm
22nd May 2016 07:58:05

"NO breastplates"

 

I know that, or at least all the illustrations I've seen show that.  But in the catalogue I have a choice of heavy cavalry NSP10 with what sure looks like breastplates, or of hussars with mirlitons NSP11, or mounted civilian guerrillas, thus my question in the Proxies and Alternatives section. 

I would be satisfied with daubing yellow and facing colors over the breastplate at this scale, but perhaps there is a better alternative out there under another nationality.  Napoleonics is mostly terra incognita to me, so I don't know what other nationalities' uniforms might work, or if the heavy cavalry is the best option.  Or if dragoons were fielded in enough numbers to matter, but I assumed scruffier dragoons would be more in evidence than heavy cavalry, given the struggles of the Spanish to remain in the game.

The Spanish army looks gorgeous.


PM njt236
Standard User
Posts: 220
Peninsular Spanish Dragoons.
njt236
23rd May 2016 04:07:08

Heavy cavalry didn't wear breastplates. NSP10 shouldn't, therefore, have breastplates.


Through the travail of the ages Midst the pomp and toil of war Have I fought and strove and perished Countless times upon this star.
So as through a glass and darkly The age long strife I see Where I fought in many guises, Many names but always me.
So forever in the future Shall I battle as of yore, Dying to be born a fighter But to die again once more.         

                G S Patton

PM keithabarker
Standard User
Posts: 57
Peninsular Spanish Dragoons.
keithabarker
23rd May 2016 01:32:59


The 1805 regulation uniform was basically the same pattern for both Line (Heavy) Cavalry and Dragoons, with Line Cavalry having blue coats with red turnbacks and Dragoons yellow coats with red turnbacks. Both with regimental facings. So Baccus “NSP10 - Heavy Cavalry” will work for both. In fact the picture on the web shop for NSP10 shows Dragoons (yellow coats) and not Line Cavalry.

Each regiment had its own facing colour as per earlier reply from njt236. Except that turnbacks were always red.

Looking at the picture for NSP10 it appears that they have green collar, lapels and cuffs which would be Villaviciosa. Don’t confuse the lapels with a breastplate.


The following might also be of use if you are going to paint up a regiment…

Officers had silver lace on their hats (instead of white) and silver epaulettes.

The trumpeter’s uniform is uncertain but it is believed that they had red coats with yellow turnbacks and facing colours as per their regiment.

The standard bearer carried a swallow-tailed guidon in a crimson cross-belt.  The Guidon was often crimson but varied depending on the regiment, with the royal arms embroidered on the obverse, and the regiment's arms on the reverse. Cravats were red, this being the national colour. The finials and fringes were to be gold or silver depending on the regiment.

In Denmark in 1807-08 the Almansa and Villaviciosa dragoons wore the older light cavalry uniform with green dolman and breeches, red facings and shako with red plume. They received the newer model 1805 uniform when they returned to Spain.

At the start of the war there were 12 regiments of Line (Heavy) Cavalry, 8 of Dragoons, 2 of Light Cavalry and 2 of Hussars.

Later in the war, some dragoon regiments adopted a leather helmet, not unlike the Tarleton. I haven’t painted any myself yet, but for these I would look at NBA03 - Bavarian Chevauxlegers or perhaps NRU07 - Russian Cuirassiers

I have been putting some of my notes on the Spanish army onto my website and you might find the following of use…

http://www.littlewars.se/spanish/index.html

PS the only Spanish cavalry to wear a cuirass were one squadron of the Coraceros Españoles formed in1810 which used captured French equipment.

 


PM Spangenhelm
Standard User
Posts: 47
Peninsular Spanish Dragoons.
Spangenhelm
25th May 2016 04:57:05

Ah, thank you both!  The photo looked to me like there was a breastplate, especially on the command figures.  All clear now that the one code will work for both.  keithabarker, thank you for the explanation and the links.  VERY useful, and exactly what I needed combined with the information here.

Now to figure out rules!  I am NOT going to go grandiose with my Napoleonics.  That is one of the reasons I picked the Peninsula. 

Leaning towards Lasalle, but could go Sharp Practice or General de Brigade.  Small scale, to replicate the petty viciousness and attritional aspects of the bleeding ulcer.  Also to make big battalions of Baccus figures.


PM peter
Administrator
Posts: 346
Peninsular Spanish Dragoons.
peter
25th May 2016 08:45:45

NPR10 definitely do not have breastplates.   I can see the confusion as the angle they are photographed from accentuate the shadows/black lining which gives the impression of a cuirass being present.   I do need to reshoot these as part of the continuing upgrade of site images and I will get a better picture at that time.


- The Overlord
PM Spangenhelm
Standard User
Posts: 47
Peninsular Spanish Dragoons.
Spangenhelm
25th May 2016 07:46:47

I think changing that photo should be the least of your priorities, Peter.

My mistake which keithabarker and njt236 set right has more to do with my own ignorance of the period than any deficiency in the photograph, and has been set right.  The photos are fine, and sell the army.  A very pretty army indeed, however unfortunate in the field.


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