Hello everyone,

I'm looking for information on the Holstein army in 1700, mostly the infantry. Now I know that the army consisted of Holstein's own regiments, as well as some Swedish battalions that had been transferred to be under the Duchy's command, but would these Swedish battalions have used pike, as other Swedish line regiments, or would they have been musket armed as some of the other Swedish garrison regiments? If they had pikes, would the Holsteinian troops have used pikes as well? And if the Holsteinians didn't use pikes, would the Swedes have eschewed pikes to be more uniform with Holsteinian tactics?

Regards, Matti

Matti,

There is now more information available but the information here should get you started - https://www.wfgamers.org.uk/great-northern-war/gnw-guide-to-armies . Look under the Holstein section.

We have no information on whether the Holstein units had pikes. They might have had some in 1700 like many other armies still did but they would not have used the same kind of tactics as the Swedes did. Other armies of the time used their pikes just defensively. The Holstein units probably used rank firing at the beginning of the campaign - but see below.

As you say the Swedish unit that were part of the Holstein army were garrison units and so might not have pikes. Once again we do not know for sure if they did or did not have them. But because it was the start of the war it is perhaps more likely that they did have them. Swedish units whether they had pikes or not used the same aggressive tactics, at least in theory. So these units would still use the Ga Pa tactics with or without pikes. In the rules I use they are less effective at this tactic if they don't have pikes.

Personally I use the Holstein troops as 

I think it is very unlikely that the Holstein army and the Swedish units that were part of it would fight on their own.Without outside help they would just remain in their fortress.  During the campaign an International army of Dutch and Hanoverian units and also a separate all Swedish army both arrived in the area. So the Holstein (and Swedes in it) joined these forces when they arrived and campaigned with them.

The campaign was not active and the 2 opposing camps just sat and watched each other. During this time we know the Dutch were teaching the Hanoverian infantry how to platoon fire as preparation for campaigning in the WSS. We don't know if they also did this with the Holstein infantry as well.

Personally I did the Holstein infantry as all muskets and then I can use them for the WSS and the campaigns of 1713-14. I already had Swedish infantry with pikes and without pikes but I use with pikes for this campaign.

I hope that helps.

Thank you very much Nick! Your answer is just about what I expected to hear, it's a pity we don't have all the information we would want as enthusiasts!

On your note that the Holsteinian army wouldn't have fought on their own, the Danish: "Bidrag Til Den Store Nordiske Krigs Historie Udgivne Af Generalstaben" (p.281-282), notes that prior to the siege of Tönning, the to-be Danish siege force had divided into two columns of about 7 infantry battalions and a horse regiment each. They would be going along different roads, with the objectives of taking the towns of Friedrichstadt and Husum before converging on Tönning. The second column wasn't able to break through Friedrichstadt on its own as quickly as had been planned - they had arrived and begun attacks on the 11th of April (p.285) - and on the morning of 13th of April as the first column was moving from Husum towards Friedrichstadt, General Banér formed "most of the Tönning garrison" to block the road at the village of Koldenbüttel to prevent the encirclement of Friedrichstadt. When the Danish column continued towards them, he eventually gave ground and retreated back into the fortress, but if we are to consider the size of the two forces, they should've been somewhat equal in size: The Danish column at Husum had 7 Infantry battalions and a regiment of cavalry, while the Holstein forces could likely be estimated to be around 3000-3500 infantry and 400 dragoons, as the number of troops that are within the fortress at the beginning of the siege of Tönning proper is given as 3178 infantry (p.294), and the cavalry had "suffered hardly any losses". 

I had been thinking on maybe doing this as a What-if battle, though the system to do it on still eludes me. I've enjoyed your Polemos and Twiglet systems, but the size of the battle appears to require something a little more granular. 

Ah yes the action at Koldenbuttel, I had forgotten about that :) Yes you are right but I would be surprised if the 'Holstein' forces consisted of all or even most of the available forces. It would be very risky to leave a fortress without a significant garrison. But still it could make an interesting small action but as you say rules might be a problem.

I would perhaps try it with a set I am developing for small actions but that is some way off & I am not sure it will work for this.

I have somewhere some draft OOB's for doing 'What if' larger battles in this campaign. The whole Danish army vs some kind of combination of the 'International'/Holstein/Swedish army - perhaps all of them with the Danes in a defensive position. These would be easily 'doable' with many rules, including mine :)

In any case, an interesting thing to do and with the uncertainty you can at least tweak it to how you want it to be. The main thing is that if you do it you take some pictures so we can all see it :)