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TOPIC: Basing & Rules
PM jbickley00
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Posts: 21
Basing & Rules
jbickley00
8th Sep 2016 01:20:02

You might consider at 75mm x 75 mm going with 6mm thick bases, as they increase the eas of handling.


PM keithabarker
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Posts: 57
Basing & Rules
keithabarker
8th Sep 2016 11:49:23

If you are unsure about basing, just paint the base brown or green and stick the figures on - no more. This makes re-basing a doable task! I've done that.

Don't use white glue, sand and static grass. If you do, re-basing small scales like 6mm will be almost impossible. I've tried that too, no fun!

Once you are happy with your basing system, then add sand and static grass - I am very pleased with the results I get from the Baccus Basing System.

//Keith 


PM senormeek
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Posts: 7
Basing & Rules
senormeek
8th Sep 2016 12:36:02

Hi folks

I do love a good chat about basing, which along with figure ratios are the old chestnuts most wargamers struggle with their whole lives!

I'm just beginning my journey on 6mm Napoleonics, having returned to the hobby after many years out but having only previously gamed with larger miniatures (apart from GW epic many, many moons ago!). I've always had a hankering for the mass effect you can get at 6mm scale, so have finally taken the plunge. I too have been through the basing debate – and probably always still do to some degree. My challenge though is that I'm not really interested in brigade-level bases or grand-tactical rules, ideally wanting to represent individual battalions and ideally be able to show formations. For me this is really important to the Napoleonic experience. I also want a solid mass of troops in each unit, to get that mass effect. Although I've seen some fabulous looking 24 man units set up for Polemos etc, I'd personally like more. So I've decided to go with 1:10 scale, with my troops mounted on company bases (or double companies in some case), as I also want to be able to show company structures. Really anal I know! For British line we're talking about 5 bases of 12 (double companies); British Guards: 10 bases of 10; Nassau: 6 bases of 14 etc. So pretty big. They'll be on magnetic bases, to allow me to build movement stands for better manoeuvrability (might be a bit fiddly otherwise). I've got enough on order from Baccus to do all of Picton and Perponcher's Quatre Bras divisions at that scale. Think I'll be painting for ever and I don't even have any opposition for them yet!

I realise that this will mean I don't fit with the popular rules systems for 6mm and won't be able to walk into a club and find someone with a compatible army. But it scratches the itch I have, so I'm happy. Ultimately I think you've got to go with what works for you and what's behind your motivation for gaming at this scale.

All that said, I've seen some fabulous examples of basing on 60x30, Polemos style, as well as 60x60. Meanwhile the Miniature Addictions bases are AMAZING looking. I'd personally be concerned about the flexibility of the large square bases though, as it never looks good when you've got bases balanced on buildings, walls, trees etc. However, I think I might potentially get some larger sabot bases to attach my smaller magnetic bases to, to allow me to represent some brigade formations if I fancy it later.

Anyway, best of luck with it all. Hope to see pictures when you're done.

cheers

Mike


PM Glenn Pearce
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Posts: 177
Basing & Rules
Glenn Pearce
8th Sep 2016 07:03:24

Hello Mike!

Great post, welcome to 6mm Napoleonics, Baccus style. Your about to start on a journey that will be even better than you expected. If you jump on the Polemos style basing you will find out that basing and figure ratios are a thing of the past. Polemos uses the base as it's guide to how many men are represented, the number of figures you put on the base is strickly up to you.

Although a lot of 6mm wargamers still use company bases for formation changes the bulk of "new school" gamers have moved on as they realize that changing battalion formations is actually a minor exercise in Napoleonic warfare that has very little to do with winning battles. Once changing battalion formations is removed from the game players shift their focus to the critical things that matter the most. When, where and how do I commit my forces. How will moving my brigades effect my battle plan, etc. This simple change in thinking is what is partly responsible for the growth in single base battalion and brigade based games.

Anyway, if you really want big battalions and the ability to change formation then just accept the next minor change that your dropping companies and simply dealing with parts of a battalion. Which is pretty much what your doing anyway. The corner stone will evole around the standard Polemos base (60x30) which will allow you to play pretty much any battalion based game, brigade based game and of course your battalion formation changing game. This will also allow you to hook up with any mainstream (60x30) based players as well.

All you have to decide is how many 60x30 and perhaps some 30x30 bases that you want to use as well as how many figures do you want to use. The basics work like this, if you want to use small size battalions then each one consists of 1 only 60x30 and 2 30x30. This gives you three moving parts to make lines, columns, squares. The next level up is simply using more 60x30 bases, some are using three of them, while some others are using 2 only 60x30 and 2 30x30 for four moving parts. The combination is really only limited to how big you want to build your battalions. You also have the added bonus of making your infantry 2 or 3 ranks, to try and please your eye or some historical formations (British in 2 ranks, French in 3 etc.). This also allows you to build a standard sabot for brigades which can be either 60 or 90 mm wide by 60 or 90 deep with all kinds of ways to mix and match them, including artillery crews which are also on 30x30 bases, limbers 60x30, officers 30x30. Your only really limited by your own creativity.

One thing to keep on mind is of course the bigger your battalions are the smaller your table will be. We fought Quatre Bras with every battalion (60x30) on a table 5' x 9' and didn't have a lot of space left over.

I hope some of this is of value to you and if anything I have said is not clear, just ask.

Best regards,

Glenn


Email dourpuritan PM dourpuritan
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Posts: 336
Basing & Rules
dourpuritan
9th Sep 2016 07:02:22

Well I looked at those Grande Armee units and the first shot was really impressive.............then I saw all those labels and thought..........nah!


PM bushs
Standard User
Posts: 52
Basing & Rules
bushs
9th Sep 2016 08:19:11

Hi all,

Thanks for all of the interesting thoughts.

I think some further play testing with the bigger bases is in order given the comment earlier on about probably needing a 6'x6' table for playability. I started making temporary 75x75 sabots but thought maybe somebody had gone down this path before and hoped to save some time.

Mike, It's good you're enthusiastic about your project. I must admit the enormity of it scares me.

Dourpuritan, I actually liked the labels when I first saw them but then changed my mind after some of the comments from the other guys on the forum. I'm now thinking all the extra realestate that the labels take up could be better used for squeezing more stuff onto the base. Or better used for hitchhikers like casualty counters.

JB, if the weight of the miniatures (I think that's what you are getting at) means I need to use 6mm thick bases then that would be a deal breaker for me. I'll be looking out for this problem during my prototyping.

I'll post some photos when I have something presentable.

Best regards,

Steve

 


PM senormeek
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Posts: 7
Basing & Rules
senormeek
9th Sep 2016 09:37:49

Hi Steve – Thanks. The scale of it scares me too! I keep having wobbles so may change I mind. The grand tactical large bases formations do look very pretty. We’ll see. Will be attempting to paint up my first British line battalion this weekend.

 

Hi Glenn – Thanks very much for the extensive comments. I’ve seen from posts here and on other forums that you’re a bit of a Baccus/Polemos/60x30 evangelist! I’m definitely on-board on the quality of Baccus, after testing out all the key ranges I’ve plumped for them en-masse. I’m less convinced by the rules and basing. I fear I may be a bit of an old school wargamer but will reflect. I recognise that formation changes were pretty irrelevant on the grand scale but they did matter on the ground. I may just have to accept that I can only play division or corps level games. Perhaps need to test out Polemos though. I may come around.

 

Your suggestion of compromising with several bases of 60x30 is interesting. It’s not as anally accurate as I wanted but may work. I will ponder. Of course this coincides with about 250 tiny mdf/magnetic bases having arrived at my place just yesterday!


PM Whirlwind
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Posts: 134
Basing & Rules
Whirlwind
9th Sep 2016 10:38:32

Tim Rogers does an ace tactical game with his stuff on 60mm x 30mm bases:

https://www.baccus6mm.com/admin/kcfinder/upload/images/JOS16/danh/line/line3.JPG

Many good games that incorporate formation changes uses a more generic 3-4 bases make up a battalion.  If you really want to accurately model zug/peloton/company evolutions, I would suggest that is actually more appropriate as a brigade-level game and perhaps create a set-up exclusively for that size of game.

 


PM Glenn Pearce
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Posts: 177
Basing & Rules
Glenn Pearce
9th Sep 2016 12:02:04

Hello Steve!

Sorry I'm getting old, I forgot we did for a while play single battalion games on 75x25 bases and found they looked just great but were awkward as hell to move around. At first we tried to justify it by saying well Napoleonic formations are awkward to move around. In the end we admitted they were just awkward and moved down to 60x30 after another great debate about 60x30 or 60x60.

If you use 2mm or 3mm mdf you should have plenty of strength for a 75x75 base.

Best regards,

Glenn


PM Glenn Pearce
Standard User
Posts: 177
Basing & Rules
Glenn Pearce
9th Sep 2016 12:41:25

Hello Mike!

Yeah, thats me singing the praise for all the good things about 6mm. No question if you want 6mm Baccus is world class and is probably the biggest seller. Polemos rules in my view are also the best but their also not for everyone. Their mainly for experienced players who know the rest are just not as good or for new players who are anxious to get a good start in the hobby. The base well, thats only from some 40 years with miniatures a couple of scales and about a dozen rebasing exercises.

I'm simply trying to show you some of the value behind using this base and thats its a lot more versatile then most people realize at first glance. The entire line up of Polemos basing 60x60, 60x30 and 30x30 was developed by Baccus only after years of experince and can be used for pretty much any application. Your an old school wargamer and know very well that the other scales are a horror in basing options that are limited in scope. So was 6mm before Polemos. You don't have to use the rules but use the basing for your ground work and you will probably never have to rebase again.

Anyway I'm glad that I was able to give you more to think about and maybe offer a more viable option for your project. Thats my only purpose.

I'm not convinced that changing formation on the ground is worth the effort. I have a number of reasons for that but one of the biggest ones is simply time lost during a game. Our studies on game design indicate that a minimun time of 5 minutes a turn is lost in rule systems that change formations. It's simply one of the biggest drains on time. As the size of the game increases so does the amount of time lost. The other great oddity is games that change formation do so many times where as on a Napoleonic battlefield not so much. Anyway thats another discussion.

Nice to know that at least I got your wheels turning.

Best regards,

Glenn


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